Campaign Updates

Thales Media Statement & the Museum's Response 

15 December 2024

In light of recent media coverage, we're sharing Thales' media release along with our response. While we appreciate Thales' recognition of the Museum's importance, we believe it’s important to provide further context to ensure transparency and understanding.

Below, you will find both Thales' statement and our response, offering insight into the Museum’s position and the actions we believe are necessary to secure its future.

Thales Media Statement, 18 November 2024

Thales Australia, as the owner and proprietor of the Lithgow Small Arms Facility, has proudly hosted the Lithgow Small Arms Museum since 1998.

We recognise the museum’s significance to Australia’s defence industrial heritage and to the Lithgow community; we are committed to supporting its ongoing operation.

To this end, Thales Australia has communicated to the museum its willingness to commit to a long-term lease arrangement which will ensure the museum’s enduring presence as part of the Lithgow Small Arms Facility.

Thales Australia is aware of the necessary security upgrades to the museum proposed and confirmed by NSW Police following the recent break-in of August 2024.

A long-term lease will allow for the museum to make not only the necessary security upgrades but other upgrades that the museum has budgeted for in their funds.

Our primary concern is the security of the Lithgow community and the Lithgow Small Arms Facility, which is a critical defence asset.

Thales Australia is committed to working with the museum’s board and volunteers, as well as NSW Police and the Lithgow community to assist them in putting in place appropriate arrangements that will see the museum re-opened as soon as possible.

The Museum's Response to Thales Media Statement, 12 December 2024

There's no need for a new lease as the main building is currently on a held-over lease - and has been since 2015.

We need:

• prompt approvals for the critical security upgrades ordered by NSW Police

• reimbursement for the costs and losses incurred by the delay, 

• honouring of the promised transfer of ownership of the integral heritage site to the museum.

Our experience has shown that we cannot proceed with future plans, including succession plans, for the museum under a lease.

A number of planned security enhancements have not progressed due to the difficulties and delays in communication with our landlord.  These may have prevented the August break-in.

The museum has been prevented from commencing security upgrades ordered by NSW police and Firearms Registry four months ago.

We requested approval of a few minor cosmetic repairs that would have helped with volunteer retention and morale at this traumatic time.  These were not approved.

The museum committee has big, exciting plans for its growth and succession that have long been stymied by multinational red tape.

The draft contact of sale offered by Thales in 2022 must be honoured or this iconic museum and its precious collections will be lost forever and Lithgow will lose another valuable asset and another part of its vital heritage.

This would be devastating for us, for Australia, and for our international clients and supporters but there is simply no other option.

For the museum to continue under a lease, the community or government would need to immediately find a team of trained, passionate and experienced experts willing to take on the responsibility of firearms licences and permits, and commit approximately 400 hours per week towards a critically important site with insecure tenure, with onerous and lengthy approval procedures for any and all works, and with the possibility of eviction at any time.

LSAFM's Response to Thales' Letter to Trish Doyle MP and Lithgow Councillors

24 January 2025

On 10th January, Thales wrote to Trish Doyle MP, Lithgow councillors, and potentially other parties to outline their claim of support for the Museum. Below is our response to that letter.

The letter from Thales Australia affirming and outlining their support for the Lithgow Small Arms Factory Museum contains inaccuracies and presumptions that further reinforce the museum committee’s view that attempting to operate under a lease agreement is untenable. Following is our perspective on each point made in the letter.

I am writing in relation to Thales Australia’s support for Lithgow Small Arms Museum and to address a number of issues raised in the public domain by the Museum’s board regarding the future of the Museum.

To clarify, all issues were raised by the museum committee directly with Thales over many years before going public with them. Following the break-in, the situation for the Museum has become dire and we reiterated the issues to Thales multiple times conveying urgency. After no response was received, the committee decided that the Australian public needed to be informed of the risk to this important heritage asset.

A correction - it is the Lithgow Small Arms Factory Museum which preserves and presents the history of the factory while it was an Australian Government facility. Firearms are only one facet of its scope.

Thales Australia, as the owner and proprietor of the Lithgow Small Arms Facility, has proudly hosted the Lithgow Small Arms Museum since 1998 – at no charge to the Museum – through lease arrangements that have existed for over two decades.

The museum existed on the site for five years before Thales acquired ADI and, from its inception, has occupied the building under a peppercorn lease.

The site was originally owned by the Commonwealth Government, and the museum's collection was donated in 1995 by Australian Defence Industries, a government business enterprise. The museum opened to the public in 1996—two years before the official opening and the formal signing of the Deed of Gift in 1998.

In late 1999, the site was purchased by a consortium of Transfield and Thompson CSF, which later rebranded as Thales. At the time, the possibility of 50% foreign ownership raised enough concern to prompt a Government inquiry. By 2006, Transfield had withdrawn from the consortium, leaving the factory under full foreign ownership.

We feel that the words “proudly hosted” reflect a sense of entitlement that the Museum volunteers have long observed in their dealings with Thales. The Museum is an entirely separate and independent entity belonging to the people of Australia. We do not feel that Thales, as our landlord, has the right to involve themselves in the Museum's operations to the extent that they do. Moreover, the volunteers are often treated like unpaid employees of Thales, which they deeply resent.

In 1999, Thales Australia donated the firearms collection to the Museum by way of a Deed of Gift.

This is not correct. The original donation of 770 firearms and 18 machines was made by The Australian government prior to the sale of the facility to Thales. The museum has since received numerous small and very large donations of firearms and other artefacts from Australian and international citizens, including Ron Hayes’ donation in 2006 of 1500 handguns which are displayed in their own gallery.

We recognise the Museum’s significance to Australia’s defence industrial heritage and to the Lithgow community and we are deeply committed to supporting its ongoing operation.

We are grateful that Thales appreciate the museum's significance to Australia and to the Lithgow community. Thales does not appear to comprehend the full significance and value of the Museum to Australia and internationally. It is much more than defence industrial heritage.

The support we have long requested from Thales is to make good on the 2022 offer to sell the Museum its site for a nominal price. Until August last year, we were not aware that this was in question.

The sale or gift of the site to the museum has been proposed and communicated, by Thales, a number of times over the past decade and this has kept the volunteers committed and hopeful, albeit frustrated by the inconsistency and lack of follow-through by Thales. To renege on this now means that approximately 450,000 hours of volunteer work and $800,000 of museum and Government funds have been spent under a false impression which Thales’ actions and communications have contributed to.

To this end, Thales Australia communicated to the Museum in November 2024 its willingness to commit to long-term lease arrangement for nominal rent, which will ensure the Museum’s enduring presence at the site – the same site that they have been at for more than 25 years. We have not yet heard back from the Museum on our offer of a long-term lease.

The lease proposal was given in response to a request from the museum’s solicitor regarding the status of the sale promised by Thales who had delivered a draft contract of sale in 2022.

Thales made it clear that the lease would include the detailed approval process for all works and provision to evict the museum, from its home of 25 years, at any time to repurpose the buildings. These are the two main issues that the Museum has been raising with Thales for many years - insecure tenure and the inability to operate and progress the Museum.

If Thales review recent and historic communications with the Museum they will find that they have long had their answer to this proposal.

We are aware that the Museum board would like Thales Australia to either gift or sell the site to the Museum.

Thales offered the Museum draft contracts of sale in 2019 and 2022. In previous years they also spoke about gifting the buildings and land to the Museum.

However, the Lithgow Small Arms Factory is a critical national security asset and an operational defence industrial facility. Thales Australia must ensure the facility remains able to meet Australia’s strategic needs, including the ability to surge in the future if required by government. This means we cannot sell parts of the facility as they may be required for development in the future, noting especially the Commonwealth’s view that Australia is facing a deteriorating security environment, in which the previously assumed 10- year warning time for regional conflict is no longer valid.

The museum committee appreciates the important work that Thales is doing for Australian defence and hopes that divesting itself of the overheads associated with unnecessarily micromanaging the Museum's operations will further free it up to focus on this.

The juxtaposition of modern weapons manufacturing on a historically significant site with derelict buildings raises serious questions about ongoing use of the site. In late 2023, in response to offering the Museum a license to operate, a Thales legal department representative stated, "the license intentionally doesn't contemplate a transition to sale arrangement as we are not in a position to consider such an outcome until the environmental works are completed." This marked our first indication that Thales was side-stepping the transfer of buildings to the Museum, a move that jeopardizes the preservation of the site’s heritage.

Visitors to the Museum have expressed surprise and concern that a weapons manufacturing facility operates in the heart of a regional town. In the interest of public safety, there is a likely case for limiting manufacturing activities on an inner-city site, instead expanding operations in a purpose-built facility outside the city, better aligned with modern environmental and logistical requirements.

The Lithgow Small Arms Factory site is under review for a State heritage listing . Its buildings are beautiful and iconic, and occupy a prominent position, making them an essential feature of Lithgow’s cityscape. It has served a pivotal role in Australia’s industry and defence, making it a site of national importance. The neglect of its structures threatens this legacy. As such, the site is more valuable as being publicly accessible and cared for by the museum, allowing for the protection and showcasing of the historical significance of the heritage site. By supporting heritage listing and the Museum’s stewardship, Thales could demonstrate its commitment to both Australia’s strategic needs and its rich industrial history.

As you may be aware, in August 2024, the Museum was the target of a burglary, in which several weapons were stolen.

The incident alluded to was a “break and enter” involving significant damage to doors and displays. 27 historic handguns were stolen including commemorative and decorative items. In a museum context, these are not classified as weapons.

Thales Australia is aware of the necessary security upgrades to the Museum proposed and confirmed by NSW Police. A long-term lease will allow for the Museum to make not only the necessary security upgrades, but other upgrades that the Museum has budgeted for in their funds.

A long-term lease will not allow this as the volunteers are no longer willing to persist with the struggles and wasted time of attempting to operate and build the museum under a lease, with the lack of autonomy and the threat of eviction at any time.

We understand the association itself has over $1 million in cash assets on hand, according to public documentation available via the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission. In the unlikely event that the Museum would need to be relocated under a lease to another building in the facility precinct, Thales has committed to ensuring the Museum is appropriately compensated in respect of its investment for these works.

Relocation under a lease was not a possibility communicated to the museum's solicitor in the offer of a “lease/license”, and Thales also stated that they would “consider” compensation rather than committing to it. Thousands of hours and a lot of money has been spent on the buildings we occupy. There are no other suitable buildings on the site where it would be feasible to upgrade to a museum standard in terms of security, access for visitors and parking, display layout, and appropriate storage for archives, library and objects. Not to mention thousands of extra volunteer hours and another extended closure. We will not contemplate moving to another building, and especially not under a lease.

The museum committee feels that, as the site is integral to this living museum, appropriate compensation would need to include fair payment for the 450,000 volunteer hours and 800,000 in monetary costs associated with building the museum to date and all further costs up to the time of eviction. Thales are unlikely to commit to this in writing.

In 2011, Thales entertained an approach by The Brethren Church to purchase the Museum's site. The museum volunteers have been subject to many adverse events that they would have considered unlikely. They are no longer prepared to donate their time and effort on the basis that any future adverse events are “unlikely” under a lease. They require, and deserve, surety that their considerable efforts to preserve and present this important heritage asset will not be in vain.

On 13 November 2024, NSW authorities confirmed the nature and scope of what security upgrades would be required for the Museum to reopen to the public.

The Museum provided Thales with the Chifley Command report outlining the required building security upgrades on 9th September. To address delays in implementing the upgrades, a meeting was organized by the Firearms Registry on 15th November. Attendees included representatives from the Museum, Firearms Registry, Chifley Command, and Thales.

During the meeting, Thales stated that the delay was due to waiting for the Firearms Registry to endorse the Chifley Command report outlining the required upgrades. The Firearms Registry representative explained that he had verbally confirmed with the Manager of the Lithgow Factory shortly after the break-in that Chifley Command was the authority on the required upgrades. He reiterated this point during the meeting.

We believe that two of the Thales representatives present would have been aware of Chifley Command's authority on security matters, given that both have held a firearms dealers license and should be familiar with the relevant safe storage regulations.

These will require significant works to the building. At the time of writing, Thales has not been provided with a proposal, compliance information (such as with building codes or permits), contractor details or plans and drawings by the Museum. This information is necessary for Thales to discharge its lawful obligations as the owner of the facility, but also for responsibilities such as site health, safety and security.

The Museum provided Thales with quotes for three of the most urgent security upgrades on 9th September. Obtaining the necessary specifications and drawings was challenging, as suppliers were hesitant to provide these without a confirmed order or deposit. The Museum provided the additional information for the three urgent security upgrades on 29th September, and Thales confirmed receipt on the same day.

On 20th December, the Museum received an email from Thales stating that the Museum could proceed with seven of the essential security upgrades at its own expense. This calls the validity of these requirements into question, as they are inconsistent. Thales have requested a detailed approvals process (possibly exceeding their mandate as landlord in some aspects), and waived these requests at their convenience. This demonstrates the impossible working conditions the museum faces under a landlord that can move the goalposts to delay or obstruct the museum at their whim.

We also understand that the association has elected to make private security arrangements at the Museum following the burglary at cost to themselves. Immediately following the incident, Thales offered to secure the Museum’s inventory at no cost. This offer was supported by NSW Police, and meant the Museum would not have to pay for private security. This offer remains open and we remain happy to store the weapons in our armouries.

Thales has offered to secure an inventory of weapons, which is different to protecting a museum’s collection of historical artefacts. Safe storage of artefacts involves carefully controlled environmental conditions, transport and handling. Thales has made no indication of such considerations, for example stating in a meeting that artefacts would be “wrapped in bubble wrap”. Such treatment would be destructive. In addition, it was made clear that the collection would be inaccessible to museum officials as a condition of this offer. This is not acceptable to those who hold the licenses guaranteeing their security. Access to the collection is essential for ongoing work and to ensure storage methods are effective in preserving every item. Given the delays to date, the museum cannot trust that the artefacts would be returned in a timely manner.

Our primary concern is the security of the Lithgow community and the Lithgow Small Arms Facility. We are committed to working with the Museum’s board and volunteers, as well as NSW Police and the Lithgow community to assist them in putting in place appropriate arrangements that will see the Museum re-opened as soon as possible.

The Museum committee is not seeing evidence of a desire to work with us. The museum is being entirely transparent in their dealings with Thales and all stakeholders. However, our letters and requests to Thales management go unanswered. Thales demands detailed specs for approval, which are then subject to unreasonable delays, with no response to our requests for updates.

Why a Lease Does Not Work!

We’re often asked by those who haven't been following our updates, why the museum can’t simply continue under a lease from Thales. It’s a fair question—but the reality is that our own experience over many years has proven that a lease simply doesn’t work. Since 2015, we’ve been on a monthly holding-over lease after being unable to sign a heavily one-sided agreement. A lease offers no real security, limits our independence, and makes it incredibly difficult to plan or invest for the future. That’s why we’ve spent more than a decade consistently pursuing ownership—because it’s the only way to truly protect the museum and everything it represents. 

1. A lease does not work because the expert volunteers are giving up their valuable time and expertise for a precious heritage site with a tenuous future. Volunteers have given over six million dollars worth of dedicated expert and casual labour, building and running  the museum over the past three decades, which now stands to be lost forever. 

2. A lease does not work because the volunteers believed Thales when they said they would sell or gift the site to the museum. This was promised multiple times over the past decade. The volunteers now require that promise to be honoured, to relieve the stress and embitterment induced by this long period of uncertainty. 

3. A lease does not work because Thales continues to impose conditions that serve their interests, not the Museum’s. The expert volunteers are exhausted by wasting years complying with lease conditions that add negative value and volumes of work.

4. A lease does not work because unique heritage buildings are at risk of being demolished.

5. A lease does not work because, as responsible custodians of firearms, we need autonomy to secure and maintain the site they are stored on, unhindered by multinational red tape.

6. A lease does not work because our succession planning includes a purpose-built Firearms History Centre, and a cafe/community venue and these are infeasible under a lease.  In order to complete this transition, a further two million dollars worth of expert and casual volunteer labour will be expended over the next five years.  This effort will only be gifted to the people of Australia if we are granted the surety of site ownership for the museum. 

7. A lease does not work because builders and tradespeople are unwilling to comply with Thales' requirement overhead of minutely detailed specifications, especially when they cannot expect approval of the job within a reasonable timeframe, if at all. In addition Thales require tradespeople to complete their induction training which is a further overhead for the museum and disincentive for potential contractors.

8. A lease does not work because Thales’ repeated backtracking has prolonged uncertainty and stalled progress on necessary improvements - including critical security upgrades ordered by firearms registry.

9. A lease does not work because the landlord has continually overstepped boundaries, shifted their position, treated the volunteers like unpaid employees, and this has created a mentally unhealthy environment for the volunteers to work in.

10. A lease does not work because it leaves the Australian community vulnerable to destruction of its heritage and the Lithgow community subjected to the potential expansion of an active modern arms manufacturing facility in its midst with resultant losses to the town in aesthetic values, security and amenity.

11. A lease does not work because it precludes the Museum from applying for certain infrastructure grants that require ownership of the site or at least long-term security of tenure.

12. A lease does not work because Thales is a multinational arms manufacturer, while the Museum is a community-run non-profit heritage institution. Our missions and priorities are fundamentally different, and their active control over our site compromises our independence.

13. A lease does not work because this site is integral to this living museum and without it, this living museum dies.